This file (c)opyright 1998 Burt Ward. All rights reserved. A Guide to Using Alt.Toys.Transformers.Marketplace and Rec.Toys.Transformers.Marketplace ver 0.1beta 98/7/26/ by Beavis@cris.com and srstoneb@bu.edu Table of Contents 0.1 Introduction 0.2 What's new this version 1.0 What are these groups all about? 1.1 Aren't there other Transformer groups? 1.2 What are the posting guidelines for both groups? 1.3 How do I write a helpful subject line? 2.0 How do I buy stuff over the net? Isn't it risky? 2.1 How do I let someone know I'm interested in buying something? 2.2 How are the transactions usually carried out? 2.3 Yow! Some of this stuff is steep! Aren't these guys scalpers? 3.0 How do I hold an auction? 3.1 How are auctions run over the Internet? 3.2 Is there anything specific to TF auctions I should know? 4.0 How do I know the value of the stuff? 4.1 Are price guides in magazines like Wizard pretty good? 4.2 Are there any better price guides? 4.3 Is it ok to ask on the group how much my Transformer is worth? 5.0 How can I grade the condition of my Transformers? 5.1 What's this whole C-9 and MIB stuff I keep seeing? 5.2 What other terms am I likely to see? 5.3 How do I know if my Transformer is complete? 5.4 How do I grade the condition of the figure? 5.5 What is meant by sticker wear, and how do I grade it? 5.6 How do I grade tech specs and instructions? 5.7 How do I grade packaging? Appendix I : Sample conditions Appendix II : List of reputable on-line toy dealers 0.1 Introduction This document was originally written as a prototype FAQ for Alt.Toys. Transformers.Marketplace. Due to lack of interest by users of that group, the FAQ was never officially put into effect. Since that time, a second Transformer marketplace group was created, and this document was revised to act as a guide to using both marketplace groups without having any real authority like a real FAQ would. It's purpose is to familiarize the reader with the posting traditions for the groups, help the reader understand what is being posted, and introduce the reader to the collectable side of Transformers. For more information about Transformers in general, read the Transformers FAQ by Steve Stonebraker, at "http://astro.bu.edu/~srstoneb/tf/". For more information on the general topic of toy collecting, refer to the Raving Toy Maniac's web page, "http://www.toymania.com". This document will not be revised regularly, but suggestions can be sent to either Steve Stonebraker (srstoneb@bu.edu) or, preferably, to Burt Ward (beavis@cris. com). At some point in the future, an official FAQ for ATT.Markeplace or RTT.Marketplace may be created based upon the material here. 0.2 What's new this version This being the first version, everything. 1.0 What are these groups all about? The groups alt.toys.transformers.marketplace and rec.toys.transformers. marketplace are intended to provide a Usenet forum for buying, selling, and trading Transformers. 1.1 Aren't there other Transformers groups? Yes, there are several: alt.toys.transformers alt.toys.transformers.fanfic alt.toys.transforemrs.classic.moderated rec.toys.transformers.moderated Originally, A.T.T. was the official group for all Transformers posts on Usenet. However, when as the group grew in popularity and traffic, it was gradually split into a family of smaller groups. The fanfic group is exclusively for the posting and discussion of fanfic, while the other three are pure discussion groups. Sales are off-topic in all Transformers groups except ATTM and RTTM. Both Marketplace groups should be carried by most servers. If your server does not carry them, email your postmaster and ask him/her to add it. Your postmaster's address is postmaster@ your_domain. "Your domain" means whatever is after the @ in your e-mail address. So, if your address is Joe@isp.com your postmaster's address is postmaster@isp.com. 1.2 What are the posting guidelines for both groups? There are no official guidelines for RTTM and ATTM, but the following rules should help both buyers and sellers to get what they want with a minimum of difficulty: 1. Sales (as well as auctions and trades) should be posted only to ATTM and RTTM. Sales posts in any other Transformer newsgroup are considered off-topic, although *occasional* sale updates (no more than once a week) are tolerated in ATT. Updates in other Transformers groups are unacceptable. 2. Sales updates may be posted to ATTM and RTTM as often as one wishes, but common sense should be used to avoid flooding the groups with your posts. You won't make more deals by annoying and alienating your readers. 3. All posts should be clearly marked with subject tags and a concise description of your post. (Example subject lines are shown in a later section.) All posts should also include the name and email address of their author in the message body as well as the header. Spam-blocked addresses are allowed but keep in mind that a lot of people may be responding to your post, and may have to go out of their way to remove a block. 4. Make your post easy to read and understand, following the suggestions found later in this document. The people you make deals with will appreciate it. :) 1.3 How do I write a helpful subject line? The first ingredient of any subject line should be a "tag", a keyword between square brackets, like [AUCTION] or [WTB]. The tag allows someone who is looking through the newsgroup to instantly recognize what your post is about, so they know whether they want to read it or not. After the tag, you should briefly describe the post's contents with the name of your auction, or a description of the group of toys you have or want. Here are some widely used tags: AUCTION - post contains an auction or auction update SALE, TRADE - post contains toys the author wishes to sell or trade FS, FT - stands for "For Sale" or "For Trade", post contains toys the author wishes to sell or trade away WTB, WTT - stands for "Want To Buy" or "Want To Trade", post contains toys the author wishes to buy or trade Examples of a useful subject line include "Big Joe's G1 TF Auction, Sept. 10 update", "Looking for MISB Omega Supreme", and "Will trade Bruticus for Diaclone cars". Examples of vague or uninformative subject lines include "Toys 4 SALE!!!!", "I want BWs", and "Jetfire!". 2.0 How do I buy stuff over the net? Isn't it risky? It can be. The internet is like everywhere else, and criminals can and do rip people off. The "buyer beware" principle is something everyone should take to heart. Whenever a rip-off artist is discovered, someone usually posts a bad trader warning, telling people not to deal with that person. However, on the Internet it is very easy to switch account names, thus making it hard to keep track of the bad guys. AOL is especially bad about this, as it allows people to switch names with no hassle whatsoever. The best thing to do is buy from known dealers, and ask for references from all unknown people. When asked, the unknown person should be able to provide a list of people he/she has had successful deals with in the past. Also, you may post a request for references on the group, asking that any who have dealt with that person to tell you their experience in dealing with the person in question. If the person has never done any business before, you might not be able to find out about them. In that case, it's buyer beware. An excellent list of bad traders is kept by wargore@aol.com. His list is on a web page at the following URL: "http://members.aol.com/wargore/TradingPost.html". 2.1 How do I let someone know I'm interested in buying something? The short answer is email them. DO NOT post a follow-up to their message on the group. Sometimes the difference is not obvious. Make sure you are doing an email reply, not a follow-up. When in doubt, ask your postmaster for help, or refer to the help files on your news reader. 2.2 How are the transactions usually carried out? After the person interested in the item (the buyer) emails the person who has the item (the seller), the seller of the item will send the buyer email with a physical address (also called snail mail address). The buyer will send payment, usually a check or money order, to that address. After the seller receives payment, he/she will ship the merchandise to the buyer's snail mail address. Keep in mind that most of the time shipping is not included in the sale price. A few established businesses will be able to take credit cards, and this is probably the safest way to pay over the Internet. However, most of the people posting will not be able to take credit cards. 2.3 Yow! Some of this stuff is steep! Aren't these guys scalpers? No. The term "scalper" is widely misused, and only applies to very few people. "Dealers" are people who buy and sell after-market collectable toys. After-market means that the toy is not available in most stores, and the company that made it is no longer shipping that toy. Dealers can charge whatever they want: they should respond to the supply and demand of the market. In contrast, a "scalper" is someone who buys currently available toys, toys that are in production and are shipping to stores. They then sell them at inflated prices. The reason they can get away with this is some toy companies "short-pack" certain individual toys. This means that in a case of 50 toys, there might be 25 of one toy, 24 of another, and only 1 of a third toy. Since the third toy is more rare than the other two, it is assumed it will have more value in the long run. So it is a highly desired item, and scalpers will charge much more than retail for these "short-packed" toys. To make matters worse, these scalpers often have contacts at the toys stores that pull the rare toys out of the cases and hold them for the scalper for a cut of the sale price. This practice cheats children and legitimate collectors out of the opportunity to find these toys. There have been some heated debates in the past about some of the exorbitant prices that some dealers are charging for Transformers. There is no right and wrong answer to this matter, just opinions. 3.0 How do I hold an auction? An auction is an event where various items are put up for bid. The auctioneer states the minimum bid. Then if someone wants the item they agree to pay the minimum bid. If someone else wants the item, they must offer more money (up the bid). The item is sold when no one else wishes to out-bid the current bidder. To hold an auction in real life, all you need are some bidders and someone with some stuff to auction off. 3.1 How are auctions run over the Internet? Auctions over the internet are run basically like a real-life auction. Someone announces they have some stuff to auction by posting an auction announcement on a newsgroup. This will list the various items, the minimum bids and the conditions of the items. Bidders then email the poster directly with their bids. Most auctions have regular updates via email to the people who have bid, but a few post the updates on the newsgroup. If you plan to run an auction you should see if your email program supports an address book feature; this will let you mail all the bidders a single update without having to type in all the addresses every time. Updates should include the items up for bid, the current bids, and the rules for the auction. Some important rule topics: Shipping: Usually the buyer pays shipping in addition to the winning bid. You should determine in advance if you will accept foreign bids, and be prepared to ship the item there - and take foreign checks. Buyouts: A buy-out is when a bidder offers an amount to take an item out of the auction, and sell to him/her directly. Some people use buy- outs when they want the auction to take the minimum time. Accepting a winning bid: Most auctions accept the winning bid by the "going once, twice, sold" format. This means that when a bid is new the item is going once. If no one bids on it the next day, it's going twice. If no one bids on it the following day, it's sold. Some variations on this are normal: Some people prefer new, once, twice sold. Some auctions simply set an end date and whatever bids are the current bids are accepted. There are two disadvantages to this method: one, setting such a sharp deadline is unfair to those that couldn't be there for the last hour or two. Two, you might be missing a higher bid from that person. If you want to end the auction by a certain date, you can make alternate arrangements. For example, you could form a chat room on IRC with the interested bidders and settle it that way. Late Payments: If someone fails to pay the price they bid on an item or items in the time frame you lay out, they forfeit the item(s). There is not much you can do besides post a bad bidder warning on the group, and re-auction the item(s). General tips: Have the rules ready to go before you post, and make them part of your auction announcement. You should make a file with the specifics on each item if you don't want to include the whole thing in your updates. This way it'll be ready for anyone asking condition questions. Be specific in your grading; if you're following the condition guide in this Guide, be sure to note that so bidders will know. Before you post anything, it's a good idea to look at several auction announcements, and learn from that example. 3.2 Is there anything specific to TF auctions I should know? Make sure you mention if the toy comes with the tech specs and the instruction book. If you don't know the names of the toys, try to describe them as best you can, and ask on any of the TF marketplace or discussion newsgroups for help identifying them. See section 5.3 on how to tell if your Transformer is complete. You might also want to double check the toy with the instructions to insure all the stickers are there. Please don't post in ATTM or RTTM if your auction contains no Transformers. 4.0 How do I know the value of the stuff? The value of a Transformer, or any collectable for that matter, is extremely variable. The only solid fact that can be stated about value is that something is worth whatever someone will pay for it. 4.1 Are price guides in magazines like Wizard pretty good? It depends on your definition of good. Wizard does not even list Transformers in their regular magazine. Toyfare has a list, but it contains many errors and omissions. Tomart's Action Figure Digest has a three volume encyclopedia of collectable figure with a good Transformers section. Unfortunately, it's out of date. 4.2 Are there any better price guides? Lee's Action Figure News and Toy Review (AFN&TR) contains the best price guide I have personally seen. It has a fairly complete list of the Transformers released in the United States, and even has several variations listed. The more recent versions list Beast Wars as well. That having been said, the guide is far from perfect. Some toys seem very overpriced, others seem way too cheap. If you're looking for a ballpark estimation guide, AFN&TR is probably your best bet. Keep in mind that different dealers charge widely different prices for the same toys, and there is no "correct" price. Also, all price guides assume the toy in question is complete and absolutely mint. 4.3 Is it ok to ask on the group how much my Transformer is worth? Yes and no. It's not exactly forbidden to post queries on a Transformer's value, but you run the risk of getting flamed. Also, the answers are likely to vary greatly. If you simply want to know what your collection is "worth", I recommend you pick up AFN&TR. That will probably tell you about how much you'd get if you were to sell your collection, within 25% anyway. Again, keep in mind the guide is for mint complete toys. 5.0 How can I grade the condition of my Transformers? Hopefully this guide will be of some help in grading the condition of Transformers. Keep in mind there is a whole collector community out there that is far more specific and exacting than this text can hope to be. Check Deja News and web search engines for more info on grading toys. Notably, my definitions are by no means authoritative or complete. 5.1 What's this whole C-9 and C-7+ stuff I keep seeing? There is a standard method for grading toys that most collectors use, called the C-X system. The C stands for condition, while the X is a number from one to ten. Ten is the best possible condition, one is the worst. Unfortunately, this is highly subjective, and specific grading criteria are needed. These are given below in sections 5.4 through 5.7 (keep in mind the point drops listed are cumulative). Pluses are generally used when the condition is roughly midway between one number and another, with the lower number of the two being followed by a plus. One additional note - Transformer toys released in Japan used a numbering system for each toy. Each toy was given a number, and thus each Japanese toy can be refered to by its faction and number. The Decepticons were called Destrons in Japan, and thus had a D followed by a dash, then the number of that toy. For example, Votrex (called Vorda in Japan) can be refered to as D-71. The confusing part of this comes from the fact that the Autobots were called Cybertrons in Japan, and thus have a C before their number. Don't panic if you see C-31 or another such confusing number listed with an ad. It is probably a Japanese toy, and doesn't mean the toy has 31 for its condition. 5.2 What other terms am I likely to see? MIB: This stands for Mint in Box. This can mean several different things depending on who is using it. Usually this means a mint toy in a mint box. MOC: This stands for Mint on Card. Again, the exact definition varies wit the user. Usually this indicates the toy is mint on a sealed card. Sealed: This indicates whether the toy is factory sealed (IE untampered with and unopened). Most MOC toys are sealed by definition, since opening a carded toy involves ripping the card or cutting the bubble. In the case of boxed Transformers, sealed can have two important separate meanings. Specifically, some Transformers have two "layers" - the taped flaps of the box, and the bubble. Some Transformers came on cardboard backs inside the box, with a plastic bubble inclosing the toy attached to the cardboard. If someone refers to the box as opened or sealed, this usually refers to whether the tape has or has not been broken. If they refer to the bubble as sealed or unsealed, this refers to whether the bubble is intact or not. The person should note how the bubble has been separated from the back (cut or ripped). This should also be noted for carded figures. Resealed: Another term you might hear is resealed. This simply means that at one time the box or bubble of a toy has been opened, and then resealed at a later time. MOSC, MISB: These and other terms are variations of the normal terms. For example, MISB means Mint in Sealed Box. There are many other terms, too numerous to list here. I recommend the rec.toys.misc FAQ for more information. 5.3 How do I know if my Transformer is complete? Most Transformers come with instruction booklets that list all the accessories that go with the toy. There are some websites that have scans of entire Transformer instruction booklets, or just their accessory pages. If you do a web search for keywords like "transformer", "instruction", "accessories", you may find some. Two places to start are Gordon Ho's page, "http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/8509/", and Megatron's Dominion, "http://users.aol.com/David321/index.htm". The number of toys that are listed is somewhat limited, but they might have what you're looking for. Otherwise, the best thing to do is to ask on one of the Transformers discussion newsgroups. Also, it's probably better to list what you do have, rather than what is missing. Also, you can grade the condition of accessories with mostly the same guidelines as grading the figure (see below). Tech Specs and Instruction Booklets should be noted as present or missing with the rest of the accessories. In addition, most Transformers came with miscellaneous inserts, such as checklists and special offers. If any of these are included with the toy, they should be noted. 5.4 How do I grade the condition of the figure? The figure is generally defined as the biggest portion of the toy that is one piece. This is a very broad definition, and in Transformer terms it usually means the robot. However, these same basic grading categories can be used for all the pieces of a Transformer. There are five basic categories used here to grade wear in a Transformer. Joints: This category includes any type of articulation. The joints should move freely with a light touch, yet remain in whatever position they are moved to. If the joints are too loose or too stiff, it usually lowers the condition by 1, or even 2 in extreme cases. Some collectors do not care if the joints are loose or not, so it is always wise to ask (if buying) or state clearly (if selling) the condition of the joints. Paint: Most Transformers have paint of one kind or another applied to the toy. The paint should not be chipped or discoloured in any way. A small chip is enough to prevent a C-10 grading, but is usually not enough to warrant a point drop otherwise. A major chip or minor discolouration will drop the condition a point, or sometimes up to two or more for serious problems. Colour: This applies mostly to the plastic itself. Most of the plastic pieces on toys are not painted; the plastic is dyed before it cures, and the piece is one solid colour throughout. Some plastics are vulnerable to ultraviolet rays and other factors which cause discolouration; usually the plastic turns a more yellowish hue, which is most notable on white plastic. Discolouration is sometimes hard to grade if the entire toy has changed colour. A minor discolouration usually drops the toys from C-10 to C-9, and a major discolouration will drop the toy one point or two further. Cleanliness: This simply indicates the amount of dirt, grime and other messy stuff present on the toy. A mint toy should be clean as if just taken out of the box when newly bought. A minor bit of dust will drop the toy down from C-10 to C-9, and progressively down from there. Unlike most wear, this can be corrected with care. Damage: This category is sort of a catch-all for all remaining wear. Broadly speaking, it includes all scratches, gouges, cuts, scrapes, cracks, broken pieces and so on. Naturally it is very hard to set a firm guideline for this type of thing, so common sense applies. Generally speaking, any C-10 toy must be completely free of damage. 5.5 What is meant by sticker wear, and how do I grade it? Virtually all Transformers have stickers of one kind or another. Stickers have four basic layers: the gloss, the ink, the paper, and the glue. The gloss is what gives stickers their shine, and protects the paper and ink from damage. Mint stickers should be correctly placed, still have the gloss, and be firmly attached with no glue showing. Checking all the stickers for wear and correct placement is difficult, and requires a perfect master to compare to. Applying sticker grading to the overall condition of the toy is also difficult. Again, a C-10 toy must have perfect stickers, or else can only be considered C-9 or less. 5.6 How do I grade tech specs and instructions? Instruction booklets can be graded exactly like comic books. Basically, they should be smooth, have no tears, rips or stains, and retain the printing gloss. The folds should not be worn or feel like they are ready to come apart. These criteria also apply to inserts. Tech specs should likewise retain the gloss, be correctly and evenly cut, and unbent. Both these items are graded separately from the toy itself. 5.7 How do I grade packaging? This includes cards and boxes; the grading criteria are similar for both. Mint cards should be straight, unwarped and unbent, with no scuff marks or edge wear (this is usually characterized by whitening of the cardboard where the gloss and ink have rubbed off). The card should retain its gloss, and should show no signs of discolouration. The bubble should not be dented or scuffed. For boxes, all the surfaces should be straight and show no edge wear. The corners should be crisp and sharp, with no dents or edge wear. The flaps (if the box is unsealed) should likewise show no signs of warping or edge wear. Some small bending of the flap may be acceptable, since some toys are very difficult to open without some bending. The clear plastic on the front of some boxes should be smooth and untorn with no clouding or scuff marks. If any part of the box is cut out (e.g. robot points) this should be noted. It will not cause a drop of the condition of the box as long as it is clearly stated. When buying a toy, always ask if there is anything cut out. The interior of the box, be it styrofoam or cardboard, should be intact and in good shape, following roughly the same criteria as the outside. Most collectors care more about the exterior and are more likely to ignore wear to the interior. Appendix I : Sample conditions C-9 loose Rodimus Prime. Figure is C-10, stickers are C-8; some are peeling just a tad. C-9 Tech Specs are included, but no instructions. He has all accessories except the spoiler. C-5 Astrotrain in opened C-8 box. Box has normal shelf wear and a few dings. Figure is C-7; joints are a little loose and he has one scratch. Stickers are C-4; some are faded and a few are missing. C-7 TS: the top left corner is bent. C-2 IB; it is torn in half at the fold. He has all accessories. C-9 second-year checklist included. C-10 MISB Metroplex. Box is perfect, no shelf wear. Box is factory sealed. Appendix II : List of reputable on-line toy dealers This is just a few that I've put together, and is by no means inclusive. I welcome all additions and suggestions. Rugby's Starbase, Huge selection of loose and packaged toys. members.aol.com/rgbystrb Kimono My House, Large selection of Japanese toys. www.slip.net/~kimono Digital Toys, Large selection of loose and packaged toys. members.aol.com/Banthatrad/web/ RoboZone, Medium selection of loose and packaged toys web0.tiac.net/users/gbunk Star Wars Collector, Medium selection of loose and packaged toys www.pcola.gulf.net/about/toystore/ Dave's Comics, sells back issues of Transformers comics www.davescomics.com HobbyX web page, medium selection of Japanese toys www.neosoft.com/~hobbyX/ This FAQ is (c)opyrighted by Burt Ward (Beavis@cris.com). All trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Permission is granted to copy and distribute this text provided that it is not altered in any way, and no fee is charged. If you have any questions or additions, please feel free to mail me. The latest version of the FAQ can be found at my TFs page and Steve Stonebraker's TF FAQ page. The URLs are http://www.wvinter.net/~beavis/tf/ http://astro.bu.edu/~srstoneb/tf/