Alt.Toys.Transformers FAQ version 1.3 updated on 2002-08-26 written by Steve-o Stonebraker sstoneb@yahoo.com Transformers FAQ Homepage: http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/tf/ ------------- File Contents ------------- 0. Introduction 1. What's a newsgroup? Is it like a message board? 2. What is this group about? 3. What are OT posts? Why are some people so anal about them? 4. What are spoilers? Why are some people so anal about them? 5. Is it okay to post binaries or HTML here? 6. Is it okay to post sales messages here? 7. Are there any other guidelines for making posts? 8. Aren't there other Transformers newsgroups, too? 9. Where can I find Transformers material on the net? 10. Legal Baloney --------------- 0. Introduction --------------- This is the FAQ file for the Usenet newsgroup Alt.Toys.Transformers (ATT). A FAQ is a list of Frequently Asked Questions and their answers. The purpose of this FAQ is to explain the customs of ATT in hopes of helping new readers acclimate themselves quickly and easily. If you are looking for information about Transformers in general, I recommend these two starting points: Transformers FAQ, by Steve-o Stonebraker http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/tf/ Ben's World of Transformers, by Ben Yee http://www.bwtf.com/ This FAQ is posted to ATT every other monday (more or less), and is available on the TF FAQ homepage, address given above. Suggestions for improvements or additions to this FAQ are welcome, and may be e-mailed to its author, Steve Stonebraker at "sstoneb@yahoo.com". It is recommended that you read the Transformers FAQ before posting to any Transformers newsgroup, to prevent the repeated asking of questions that are already answered therein. --------------------------------------------------- 1. What's a newsgroup? Is it like a message board? --------------------------------------------------- "Newsgroups" are forums for the discussion of a wide variety of subjects. The collection of all the newsgroups that exist is called "Usenet", an entity which came into being in its most primitive state in 1979. Messages which are posted to Usenet are transferred from one server to another via the Network News Transfer Protocal (NNTP, sort of like the "HTTP" in web addresses). Newsgroups are organized in a straightforward manner based on their topic of discussion. For example, under the rec.arts.* hierarchy, you'll find newsgroups about recreation and the arts including things like music, theater, comic books, and television. A newsgroup is not a "board" and it is not a "site". Newsgroups are more like mailing lists, because every message that is posted to a newsgroup is sent out to every nntp server in the world that is subscribed to that newsgroup (hundreds of thousands of them, if not millions). Individual netizens then connect to their local nntp server to read messages collected by their server. There is no main Usenet computer which does all the work and keeps all the messages. Newsgroups do not exist in any single place. They are merely a collection of posts with similar message headers, routinely transmitted and deleted when they get old. (The one exception is groups.google.com, which keeps a public, searchable archive of the posts it receives.) Usenet is a system specifically designed for allowing many individuals to share in a single discussion. Each post made is assigned a unique Message-ID by the server from which it is posted. Other nntp servers regularly contact each other in an intertwining web to say "I have these Message-IDs. Do you need any of them? Do you have any I don't have yet?" In this way, even if many servers go offline simultaneously, there is little interruption in the distribution of information. More recent peer-to-peer networks such as Gnutella work on similar principles. ---------------------------- 2. What is this group about? ---------------------------- Alt.Toys.Transformers is devoted to the discussion of "Transformers" toys and related subjects. Transformers were originally released in the 1980s, and have gone through several metamorphoses since that time, but are still popular with both children of the eighties and children today. Alt.Toys.Transformers provides a forum for discussion of everything Transformers, from the classic 80 TFs to the present, and from the toys and cartoons to fanfiction and conventions. Appropriate types of post include questions, essays, and debates regarding Transformers toys, cartoons, comics, web pages, fan fiction, art, sleeping bags, shrinky- dinks, etc.. "Animorphs" toys (which were marketed by Hasbro under the Transformers banner) are considered on-topic but the Animorphs books and TV shows are off-topic. Topics which are very similar or closely-related to Transformers are also considered loosely on-topic so long as their discussion remains limited and at least ephemerally related to Transformers. (Examples include Go-Bots, Battle Beasts, and M.A.S.K.) A long discussion of Robotech, Voltron, or Gundam is not appropriate on ATT unless the discussion is connected to Transformers (comparison of sizes and capabilities of TFs to those mecha, for example), especially since those three topics have devoted newsgroups elsewhere in Usenet. Sales posts are not technically forbidden, but should be made elsewhere if possible. (See question 6.) As on most newsgroups, posts about the group itself are on-topic. For example, a question about ng policies is not about Transformers, but *is* about ATT, and is therefore okay. Posts about the newsgroup or about the discussion itself are "meta" posts and should be given a [META] subject tag. (See more about subject tags in question 7.) Before making a post it is recommended that you read the Transformers FAQ; the question you were going to ask may have a straightforward answer contained in that FAQ, and it may give you a flavor of the sort of things that are discussed on ATT. You should also do at least a brief search of the web and of Usenet (using Google Groups) to see if your question has already been answered. The Transformers FAQ is presently quite out of date (my own fault) so checking the Groups archive is strongly recommended. If you ask a question that everybody is sick of, don't be surprised if you get some rude responses. -------------------------------------------------------------- 3. What are OT posts? Why are some people so anal about them? -------------------------------------------------------------- OT stands for "off-topic". "On-topic" would be abbreviated the same way, but that's not what people mean when they use the term OT. An off-topic post is any post which doesn't belong in the newsgroup. For example, a post about the latest CD by Tool does not belong in a newsgroup about Transformers. Off-topic posts clutter the newsgroup, making it harder to find the posts about Transformers for which people come to ATT. Many ATTers dislike OT posts for that very reason. It's hard enough at times to find posts worth reading in ATT; when an extra 20 posts a day that don't even have anything to do with TFs show up, it just makes things that much more irritating. When confronted, people who make OT posts generally respond in one of two ways. The first is to say, "I think OT posts add flavor to ATT; it's boring to talk about nothing but TFs all the time." If you are bored by reading about Transformers, perhaps you shouldn't be reading a newsgroup devoted to their discussion. There are tens of thousands of other newsgroups devoted to other topics. If you want to talk about a movie you just saw, why not visit a newsgroup where lots of other people also go to talk about new movies, such as "rec.arts.movies.current-films"? What's really being said here is that the OT poster feels they have a lot of friends in ATT (which is quite possibly true), and they want to talk about the movie with friends. Thus, they post about it to ATT. While somewhat understandable, this is still not appropriate. ATT is a community, yes, but it's also a resource for TF fans. ATT is where people go to talk about Transformers. When it is full of posts on other topics, ATT becomes useless. Usenet is divided into separate groups so that people can find the discussions they want. Making OT posts defeats the purpose of having groups divided by topic. There are a lot of newsgroups out there which have become deovted to general discussion, whether by design or by accident. alt.games.final- fantasy is a good example. Good luck finding worthwhile discussions about FF there. There are lots of posts, though, and many conversations about many topics. That is what happens to a newsgroup where nobody is anal about OT posts. It's not a waste of a newsgroup by any means; lots of people read it and post there and enjoy it. But it is no longer the great forum for talking about FF that it once was. We don't want the same thing to happen to ATT. If you're looking for a topic-less newsgroup with a general chat room atmosphere, there are many to choose from to make friends in. Please use ATT only for talking about Transformers. The other commonly-given retort when confronted about OT posts is, "I can do whatever I want to! If you don't like OT posts, don't read them!" In response to the first sentence... grow up. Being capable of doing something does not mean you are justified in actually doing it. A better defense than that is needed. The second sentence is typically doubletalk for "I don't care if it bothers people, so shut up." In which case, I say again: grow up. There is a slightly deeper issue in the "don't read them!" argument which is worth addressing, though, similar to "if you don't like TV show X don't watch it, and if you don't like book X don't read it". After all, if an OT post is clearly marked with the [OT] tag then most people will be able to killfile the tag and never even know the post was made. Do people that hate OT posts but leave [OT] out of their killfile just like to complain? Of course not. Why don't they just ignore the posts? They're simply concerned about the ng. If we ignore OT posts and don't ever make a stink about them, that is an implicit statement of acceptance. If no one complains, there must not be anything wrong, right? Well, OT posts go against the very heart of Usenet's organizational structure. OT posts lead to newbies making posts that say "Uh, isn't this group about Transformers? Why are there all these posts about X-Men? Am I in the wrong place?" OT posts make baby Jesus cry. ATT was created for the purpose of talking TFs, and that is what draws people to it. In order to talk about other things, go to other places. It's that simple. One last thing to note: Often, a thread will drift from one topic to another in the course of discussion. Sometimes this topic drift takes a thread into realms that are OT for the newsgroup. As long as the OT posts do not continue indefinitely, this is generally considered to be OK. Topic drift is a natural part of conversation. Often when a thread has drifted too much, somebody will include an "Obligatory TF" comment at the end of their post, marked "ObTF" or "ObTFs". Often, these ObTFs lead to new on topic threads. However, there is no reason for a thread to ever start out off-topic. Making a half-assed connection to TFs doesn't make it on topic. (Example: A post about Douglas Adams is off-topic, even though Waspinator once spoke the name 'Wonko the sane' which is the name of a character in an Adams novel. This would be off-topic even if the reference was actually to Adams and not to TransFan Ben Yee, who uses Wonko as a screen name.) -------------------------------------------------------------- 4. What are spoilers? Why are some people so anal about them? -------------------------------------------------------------- A spoiler is a piece of information about a story which "spoils" part of the story or takes away an important surprise. For example, some spoilers for the Transformers movie would be "Optimus Prime dies", "the talking planet transforms into a giant robot", and "don't worry when Spike and Bumblebee get eaten; they're okay at the end." Knowing these things before seeing the movie could easily make it less enjoyable because you will be expecting them to happen. Some fans don't mind being spoiled. In fact, some fans actively seek out as much information as they can find about how future storylines will pan out. Many fans, however, find these stories much more enjoyable when they do not know ahead of time what is going to happen. Because not all fans are able to see new episodes at the same time, we ask that you take precautions to not spoil other ATTers. If you make a post that contains information which could spoil a recent cartoon, comic, etc., there are two important things that you should do. First, put a [SPOILERS] tag in the subject line, and second, include 20 or so lines of "spoiler space" at the top of the post. This way people who have not seen the story yet will not accidentally read anything they don't want to. Failing to include spoiler warnings can ruin a new episode for hundreds of TransFans at a time. What is spoiler space, exactly? The idea is to fill up the first screen's worth of your post with blank space (or random babbling, if you prefer) so that anybody opening the post won't immediately see "I can't believe they killed Dinobot!!!" staring back at them. Typically people will place a single letter on each line to spell out a message like "spoilers, ho!" as you read downwards. Make sure to indicate, above the spoiler space, what episode or issue you are spoiling. If your readers know you're spoiling a new episode of the "Robots In Disguise" cartoon, but you don't bother to say *which* episode, then they won't know if it's "safe" for them to read on. Spoiler space should take up at least the first 15 lines of the body of your post, but not more than 25 or 30. If you put in ten screens of space, you're just wasting people's time. There are occasionally debates on ATT about whether spoiler space should be mandatory, or if subject-line warnings are good enough. While it is true that the subject warning should, ideally, be all that's needed, there are many circumstances in which it's not. Most notably, when the topic of a thread drifts slightly and somebody introduces spoilers into the discussion, it's entirely possible that they will forget to update the subject line with a SPOILERS tag. We know from experience that subjects usually don't get updated even when the discussion strays away completely. Spoiler space on top of subject warnings simply provides a second layer of protection. In early 2000 there was a large enough debate about this that I actually attempted to take a vote, asking whether spoiler space should be mandatory or optional at the discretion of the person posting spoilers. I received only 48 votes, but the results were quite lopsided: 42 to 6 in favor of keeping spoiler space mandatory. The last matter to address here is what, exactly, constitues a spoiler and how long it *remains* a spoiler until one can assume that "everyone" already knows what happened. Unfortunately, there is no good answer to those questions. It is a subjective matter. It is further complicated by the fact that ATT has a highly international readership. The Beast Wars cartoon ended in the United States in 1999, but not a single episode has aired in the home nations of many ATT readers. On the other hand, it's safe to assume that BW will *never* air in some of those places, and we can hardly spoiler-protect Beast Wars forever. Sadly for ATTers who do not live in North America, this is largely a matter of "majority rules". Once episodes have aired in both the US and Canada, then it typically takes at least a full year before it begins showing in various parts of Europe. It's impossible to say with much precision, but as a wild guess I'd say that probably 3/4 or more of ATTers live in North America. Therefore, a few weeks after an episode has been shown across that continent, spoiler protection usually relaxes. Thankfully, with many TF websites now offering episode downloads, the problem for non-American fans is lessening, as they are able to see episodes only a day or two after they are first broadcast. -------------------------------------------- 5. Is it okay to post binaries or HTML here? -------------------------------------------- No. It is never okay to post binaries -- messages which contain attached or encoded files -- in a newsgroup that does not have "binaries" in its name, unless that newsgroup specifically allows it in its charter or FAQ. Most binaries newsgroups are in the alt.binaries.* hierarchy. Binary posts are large, clumsy to transmit, and ugly to look at. However, this doesn't mean that no one on ATT would like for you to share your files with us. You may post Transformers binaries to appropriate newsgroups such as alt.binaries.pictures.cartoons, or place them on your web page, or if you don't have a web page, you can ask someone who does to put the files up. You can also simply offer to email the binaries to anyone who requests them. Once you have done one of these things, make a short post to ATT describing the files and where they can be found. It is also bad form to post in hypertext (HTML). Usenet is a forum for plain text communication. Anyone not using a web browser to read your post will have to put up with the ugly HTML codes it will contain, which make it very difficult to read. If you post in plain text with an attached HTML version, you're just committing both sins at once. ------------------------------------------ 6. Is it okay to post sales messages here? ------------------------------------------ Kind of, but not really. ATT does not have a newsgroup charter. In the absense of a charter, the original "control message" which created the group serves as a basis for determining the rules and code of conduct for that group. The control message for ATT (publicly available on the TF FAQ Homepage) makes no mention of sales posts, and specifically states that the group is intended as a forum for discussion. Sales posts were once a very small fraction of group traffic -- it used to be a big deal to the whole ng when somebody actually held an auction -- but as the net's population grew, more and more sales were posted to ATT. In 1996, ATT.Marketplace was created for the purpose of housing the sales posts which were, by that time, numerous to the point that they interfered with discussions. There are still some news servers which do not carry ATTM, but they are uncommon. Even less common are servers without Rec.Toys.Transformers.Marketplace. So, if you can use ATTM or RTTM instead of posting sales to ATT, please do. That's what we made them for. If your server does not carry ATTM or RTTM and your news admins will not add the groups, but you do have web access, you can read and post to both marketplace groups for free by using the web-based Usenet services described in question 8. If none of these options work for you, then you are welcome to use ATT as an alternative. Please be considerate, however, and do not make repeated posts in a short period. (In particular, don't make a separate post for each item you are selling. ATT is not a billboard.) If you make sales posts to ATT it is very important to write a clear subject line and use an appropriate subject tag. --------------------------------------------------- 7. Are there any other guidelines for making posts? --------------------------------------------------- Guidelines on ATT are about the same as on any "typical" newsgroup. The questions above cover most of the essentials. Basically, follow the code of netiquette and you'll be okay. A good resource is "How to win friends and influence ATT" by H. Jameel al Khafiz. Also, I have written an allegory relating Usenet to a "hang-out" restaurant which may give you some idea of why we have the rules we do, and how, in general, to be a positive presence here. Both of these files can be found on my netiquette page, "Playing Nice": http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/tf/nice.html Here are a few additional pointers, many of which are expanded upon in the posts at Playing Nice: The standard line-length is 80 characters. This means your posts should have less than 80 characters on a line so that if you are quoted in a followup (which usually involves putting >'s along the left edge of your text) everything will fit. Somewhere around 70 characters ensures that nearly everyone will be able to read your post easily. If your newsreader displays posts in a variable-width font like Times Roman or Arial, you may want to switch it to a fixed-width font such as Courier so you'll be seeing things the way everybody else does. Also make your posts in plain text: Don't use HTML, and don't attach any files. If posting to report a rumor, *clearly* state that it is a rumor, as well as where you heard the rumor. Refrain from posting flames or personal attacks directed at other readers of the group. Keep your bigotries and prejudices (racial, sexual, religious, national, etc.) to yourself. If you are flamed, attacked, or otherwise scorned, do not add fuel to the fire by flaming back. Post at most a single message which says "This doesn't belong here where it will annoy other readers. If you want to fight, send me private email." If someone trolls the newsgroup, ignore them rather than responding. Yelling at a troll does not hurt their feelings and make them want to change their ways; it makes them sure that you are reading their posts, which is what they want. Make sure the subject line of your post is accurate and informative. Your subject should tell someone what your post is about, not merely give them a hint. If you post a followup in a thread which has drifted from its original topic to a new one, you should alter the subject line to reflect the new topic. Begin your subject with a "tag", a one-word category into which the post falls. Tags should be written in ALL CAPS and contained in square brackets, like so: [TAG]. Some typical subject tags are TOYS, CARTOON, BW, COMIC, and NEWS. If you need more than one tag, that's okay; just be frugal. Each ATTer should consider it their personal duty to use the newsgroup responsibly, and to set an example by doing so. This is everybody's Internet. Help keep it beautiful. --------------------------------------------------- 8. Aren't there other Transformers newsgroups, too? --------------------------------------------------- Yes. Although ATT was the first Transformers newsgroup, created in 1993 to replace a growing mailing list, it grew larger to the point that many readers wished to split it into an array of smaller newsgroups. Read the descriptions of the groups below, and feel free to participate in all or none of them. A FAQ or guide for each newsgroup is available on the Transformers FAQ Homepage. -=>alt.toys.transformers (ATT) The original Transformers newsgroup. All Transformers discussion and fanfic are on-topic. Very limited discussion of closely-related topics is allowed. Sales posts are not technically forbidden, but should be made elsewhere if possible. This is the ATT FAQ. -=>alt.toys.transformers.marketplace (ATTM) Marketplace group for Transformers and closely-related toys and merchandise. Discussion is to be kept to a minimum, but discussion of sales-related topics is allowed. Fanfic is off-topic. There is no ATTM FAQ, but Burt "Skyflight" Ward has written a helpful document titled "A Guide to Using ATTM and RTTM". -=>alt.toys.transformers.fanfic (ATTF) For posting and discussing fanfic based on Transformers and closely-related topics. Sales posts are off-topic. Non-fanfic discussion is off-topic. A FAQlet called "How to posting a fanfic" has been written by Patricia "Vulcana" Wright. -=>alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated (ATTCM or ATTCMod) ATTCMod is a discussion newsgroup for all aspects of classic Transformers. The demarcation between "classic" and non-classic lies between Generation Two and Beast Wars. Fanfic is permitted. Sales posts are not allowed. This is a moderated newsgroup. The ATTCMod FAQ is written by Burt "Skyflight" Ward. -=>rec.toys.transformers.moderated (RTTMod) All Transformers discussion and fanfic are on-topic. Very limited discussion of closely-related topics is allowed. Fanfic cannot be posted to RTTMod for legal reasons, although discussion of fanfic is allowed. Sales posts are expressly forbidden. This is a moderated newsgroup. Chris "Robotech Master" Meadows is responsible for the "RTTMod Charter and Moderation FAQ". -=>rec.toys.transformers.marketplace (RTTM) Marketplace group for Transformers and closely-related toys and merchandise. Discussion is to be kept to a minimum, but discussion of sales-related topics is allowed. Fanfic is off-topic. There is no RTTM FAQ, but Burt "Skyflight" Ward has written a helpful document titled "A Guide to Using ATTM and RTTM". If you would like to participate in one of these newsgroups, but your news server does not carry it, ask your news administrator (usually news@ ) to add it. As an alternative, you can access any of the groups through a free web-based news service such as "groups.google.com". The Open Directory Project has a list of web-based Usenet services at this address: http://dmoz.org/Computers/Usenet/Web_Based/ ----------------------------------------------------- 9. Where can I find Transformers material on the net? ----------------------------------------------------- Transformers material is all over the place. Just about anything you can think of is out there someplace. There are too many robust sites for me to make a fair list. An all-around resource is the Transformers FAQ, written by myself. It is full of information about TFs and TF fandom, and also contains a lot of links. I also keep a link list with a sample of "important" or very useful sites. One of the most popular TF fansites is Ben Yee's bwtf.com. Otherwise, I recommend using search engines and link indices like dmoz.org and Yahoo! to find what you're looking for. Transformers FAQ, by Steve-o Stonebraker http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/tf/ Steve-o's Essential TF Links http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/tf/links.html Ben's World of Transformers, by Ben Yee http://www.bwtf.com/ ----------------- 10. Legal Baloney ----------------- The Alt.Toys.Transformers FAQ, by Steve Stonebraker. Copyright 2002. This FAQ may be distributed to anyone by any means, so long as the author retains all credit, the document is unaltered, and no fee is charged for the distribution. Transformers, Beast Wars, etc., are trademarks of Hasbro Toy Group. Darn that Soundwave! ::yaaaawwwwn!::