From danielmsuh@rogers.com Mon Feb 11 12:21:44 2002 Path: nntp.service.ohio-state.edu!diablo1.net.ohio-state.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!opentransit.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!teaser.fr!noos.fr!teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!66.185.86.143.MISMATCH!news03.bloor.is!news1.bloor.is.POSTED!12dc6cf53ab2750!not-for-mail From: "Suspsy" Newsgroups: alt.toys.transformers References: <20020208231359.08532.00000463@mb-fo.aol.com> <3C64C5E4.AD2@knoledge.org> <3C65C2EC.31B6@knoledge.org> Subject: Re: Does anyone actually like Armada? Lines: 122 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 01:49:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.114.7.195 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rogers.com X-Trace: news1.bloor.is 1013305754 24.114.7.195 (Sat, 09 Feb 2002 20:49:14 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 20:49:14 EST Xref: nntp.service.ohio-state.edu alt.toys.transformers:541966 "Túrin" wrote in message > I'll say it one more time: what I find objectionable is not people's > opinions on the toyline. It's people being rude to other people because > of their opinions. > > If someone wants to start a thread saying that Armada or G1 or Bw or > *whatever* is massively disappointing to them, they can do so. And I > *DON'T* mean "they have the right to do so but they shouldn't" like your > little racist sign analogy. I mean, it's *okay* for them to do so. It > doesn't harm anyone. Okay, my previous analogy was a little extreme, I admit it. But my stance towards the people who are so eager to prematurely bash Armada or dismiss it as a failure remains the same. Let me use another analogy, this one more appropriate and familiar. What we've seen thus far, those grainy Toyfare pics, are like a thirty-second trailer for a big budget blockbuster-type film like Star Wars Episode III or Indiana Jones 4. What we'll be seeing in the next day or so, the pics from Toy Fair, will be like a full two-minute trailer. And when Armada actually hits stores, that'll be like the movie's grand opening. Now, if you're a movie critic or simply a big movie fan, when are you going to pass judgment on the movie? 1) After viewing the thirty-second trailer; 2) after viewing the two-minute trailer; 3) after viewing the movie itself. The most logical, and most appropriate answer, of course, would be #3, after you've seen the movie. Recall, if you will, all the excitement that the Godzilla 1998 trailers generated. Many people were certain that this would be the summer's biggest hit. But when the film actually hit theatres, it turned out to be a huge disappointment, critically and financially. Similarly, not many people thought that The Blair Witch Project was going to be a smash, but it turned out to be just that. The bottom line is, you cannot nor should not pass any kind of judgment on a movie, a book, a TV show, a car, software, or *toys* until they actually come out. You can speculate, you can muse, you can mull, and that's perfectly okay. But when people start whining about how Hasbro's blown it again or proclaiming that these toys will become shelf warmers or contending that futuristic vehicles will always suck, then it becomes stupid and annoying. If Armada was already out and we'd all had a chance to watch the show, read the comic, and play with the toys, and people were making negative comments, well, it'd still be annoying, but at least they'd be able to back up their arguments more. When Neale launched his great anti-BM campaign back in late 1999, he at least waited until the show started airing. But now he's not even bothering to wait. No, instead he sees nothing wrong with dismissing Armada as a failure from the get-go. Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch. > But don't get offended and post a "quit yer bitching" message just > because someone insults the toy line. If that's the case, I think > you're *way* too sensitive. Insulting the toy line does not hurt you. No, it doesn't hurt me, but it's still offensive. It reeks of arrogance, ingratitude, and negativity. It's arrogant because it makes you come as an overbearing know-it-all who enjoys pissing on other people's happiness. It's ingrateful because it shows a clear amount of disdain for Hasbro, who has really been the brunt of way too much criticism from fans, many of whom have zero experience and minimal understanding of how the toy business works (I know *I* don't know much about running a billion-dollar toy company). And finally, negative commentary only provokes further negativity, which can lead to flame fests. *Especially* when the TV show/toy line isn't even due out for several months. > For example, I happen to think LOTR is one of the greatest novels ever > written. There may be people out there who think it's terrible. They > can think that, and it doesn't harm me. They can even start threads > saying how lame it is. Fine. Now, if I post a message saying how great > it is, and they respond saying, "no, it sux" then I'll get offended, > because now they're being rude by deriding something I care about. The > difference is, if they do so in their own thread, it's not directed at > *me* so I don't care. But Turin, LOTR the film has been out for almost two months. LOTR the book has been out for *decades.* People have had plenty of time to read the book or watch the film and judge for themselves. Armada is not due out until at least summer. All we'll have to go on for the next few months are still photographs. I reiterate, you CAN'T judge Armada until it's actually out. It's wrong, it's stupid, and it makes you like an incredible jerk. > It's not whether you like or hate the toyline, it's how you present your > feelings. Let's all present our opinions, and not act like our opinions > are facts, and let's also not fly off the handle and rush to defend our > opinions because we *think* someone's bashing it. Tell that to all the Armada bashers, not to me. I don't see how any of my latest posts constitute "flying off the handle" as you put it. On the contrary, I've been restrained and civil (so far at least). If I'd flown off the handle, I'd be saying things like "All you worthless, judgmental, pisshead Armada bashers shut the fucking hell up right now before I ram a 1984 G1 toy up each and every one of your rectums and then sew the slits shut with steel thread." > I dunno, even though I really like what I've seen of Armada so far, I > don't see why we can't discuss our likes and dislikes without taking > sides. "Calling them on it if we disagree"? Doesn't that sound > incredibly adversarial? I mean, we're all Transfans together right? > (Except for those DR folk, they're a bunch of freaks.) Why *shouldn't* a person call someone on something that he/she strongly disagrees with? Isn't that what discussion is all about? And yeah, we're all Transfans here, but that sure as hell doesn't mean we have to be happy and joyful with each other all the time. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of whiny, ungrateful, constantly negative, pre-judgmental, know-it-all Transfans who bash and bitch about everything that 3H, Dreamwave, and Hasbro have bestowed on us. Hell, I could name a bunch of individuals who I'd like to see ostracized and banished from the fandom for life, but I'm not gonna name them, for obvious reasons. One more time: PASSING JUDGMENT ON ARMADA NOW IS WRONG. WAIT UNTIL IT HITS STORES AND TV. THEN JUDGE. Suspsy "Clarity of thought before rashness of action." -Shockwave